“It is not living that matters, but living rightly.” ~ Socrates
When we live lives disconnected from those things that truly matter, sidetracked by the unimportant, lost in the frivolous, distracted by the superficial, our lives start to ring hollow, empty and vacant.
When, on the other hand, we live our lives dedicated to those things that matter most, a greater sense of happiness rubs up against us, walks beside us, calls on us, and even moves in and redecorates our bathrooms.
The choice is obvious. But deciding what matters and what doesn’t is sometimes, and for some people, less obvious.
This is especially true in a Hollywood-centric, pop-culture saturated media-driven ethic.
In such a culture, the substanceless can appear heavy with content, the silly can look profound and the meaningless can seem pregnant with meaning.
So what then truly matters? Here’s a few items on my list. See if they match up with yours.
4 Things that Matter
1. Values Matter
Our values identify what’s important to us and how we prioritize our time, energy and attention. They reflect what we stand for. They define the outer limit of what we’re willing to tolerate and what we’re not. They determine the context of what we’re willing to pursue and what we won’t.
We’re set adrift to flounder in the uncertain moral muck of life when we lack a well-defined set of moral values on which to stand.
Values matter because a life without them is ultimately utilitarian, self-absorbed and unhappy. Our values act as anchors in storms and strings on kites, adding the tension that creates lift but also keeps us from nose-diving into trees or flapping aimlessly in the wind to nowhere.
In the absence of values, we’re rudderless in the pull of moral riptides and trapped in the quicksand of “anything goes.” And when anything goes, everything tends to, including things like self-discipline, self-confidence and self-respect.
2. Relationships Matter
How we treat those closest to us is more significant as a measure of our character than how we treat the stranger or the person we want something from.
I’ve seen families where parents treat their children worse than their friends and their spouses worse than strangers. This is sad to me.
The quality of our relationships is a predictor of the quality of our lives because most of life’s meaning lies within the context of other people. We’re mothers and fathers and spouses, brothers and sisters, friends and neighbors, employers and employees and teachers and students. So it’s in those relationships that we can do the most good and experience the most meaning.
We are at our most noble and decent when we are in the service of others. When we lift people, we are likewise lifted.
Besides, an isolated life is a self-absorbed one. But the irony is that a life exclusively or even mostly focused on the self is a life missing a fundamental ingredient to purpose and happiness.
So love those who are open to being loved and figure out a way to love those who aren’t. In the process of doing both, the rising sense of meaning and purpose and happiness in your life will be a much more constant companion.
3. Faith Matters
We live in an age of growing faithlessness. People have lost faith in tradition and God, in organized religion, in the institution of marriage and in others. There is less faith in governments and programs and ideologies, in political parties and even in humanity.
The problem is that faith is a principle of action. It inspires and leads and directs and moves us to do, to overcome, to believe and accomplish.
What you believe in — what you trust as right and wrong, true and false, good and bad — plays a significant role in how happy you are able to become. Whether we are talking about faith in God or humanity or Truth or yourself, that faith is critical to living life anywhere near its potential.
Faith is the expectant exercise of hope. It is the root to the tree of action. It is the seed of planning and goals and steps taken toward dreams and through challenges and into happiness.
Faithlessness is life at the edge of hopelessness. It is a life untethered from an assurance beyond the obvious, seen and tangible.
Faith propels us into the dark through to the other side of night. It takes us by the hand across the bridge or along the ledge when the next step is obscured and uncertain. It’s what takes us to the heights of possibility because we believe that wherever we rest now, there’s something more, something higher, something greater down the road. That too is the offspring of faith.
For many of us, faith in God is an added bedrock of assurance upon which we can build. That faith becomes a lighthouse in the darkest moments in our lives and a more accurate mirror of who we are and what we can accomplish when we’re thinking very little of ourselves.
4. Self-Respect Matters
Self-disclosure is not the same as self-exposure. This is a strange age we live in when individuals and families go on national TV to display their family’s dirty laundry. Others clamor for their 15 minutes of fame as reality show contestants who reveal all their darkest secrets and character flaws in shameless overkill. Sports stars and others write tell-all autobiographies that open bedroom doors far too wide for propriety or dignity to have place.
As a matter of fact, that’s just the thing that seems to have been lost by a growing number of people – a sense of dignity that knows when self-disclosure has crept into the exhibitionism of self-exposure.
But the ability to like yourself, born of a deep respect for who you are and are becoming and the potential that is also part of your identity can radically revolutionize your life.
Self-respecting people therefore simply live differently than those who aren’t. They don’t do the same things. They don’t think the same things. They don’t believe the same things. And they don’t allow the same things from others. They simply live different lives in some fundamental ways.
Don’t get me wrong. They both eat and sleep and love their kids. But what they think about themselves and how they treat themselves and talk to themselves and what they believe about themselves are profoundly different. And that’s a dividing point between those who are happy and those who struggle much more than they need to.
Afterthoughts
When I was young, I had an aunt who liked to wrap empty boxes to make Christmas appear even bigger and grander and more exciting than it already was. Sometimes we would forget which presents under the tree were the extra boxes she had wrapped. Someone would inevitably tear into the wrapping, excited about the prospects waiting inside. But all that would be had was an empty shell of a gift. All ribbon and wrapping; no substance.
That’s what life is like when we spend it in the pursuit of things that don’t matter. The packaging may glitter and sparkle, but there’s nothing inside but emptiness.
Here’s the thing. We can eat the food we buy or we can eat the receipt that shows how much we spent on the food we buy. We can have a meal of the substance or of the packaging the meal comes in.
One satisfies. The other leaves us hungry for something more. One nourishes. The other fails to provide us with the life-sustaining nutrients of meaning and purpose and joy our lives crave to have.
Roller coasters are fun. But at the end of the ride, you’re at the end of the ride. The deeper things of life like service and decency, on the other hand, are not always fun. But at the end of that ride, there is a glow in the heart that keeps on giving long after the event is over.
There’s nothing wrong with roller coasters, of course. But in the end, a roller coaster doesn’t take you anywhere.
So look closely. What have you filled the empty slots of your life with? Take stock. Evaluate. Then go to work focusing more on those things that matter most, pushing the time-wasters further into that background, opening yourself for greater and deeper levels of meaning and opportunity, love, joy and success in those things that truly matter.
You, after all, have inherent value. You’re worth the effort at learning to love the weightier things of life. Find them. Recognize them. Embrace them. And let them take you to a life that is deeply and richly rewarding, meaningful and happy.
YOUR TURN!
What do you think? What matters most to you? What have you done to add meaning to your life? I would love to hear from you. Please share your thoughts in the comments below.
And if you found this article to be of value (or think others might find it so), please share with your favorite social media (or all of them! :)).
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Ken — thanks for the good advice on how to get our priorities in order. I struggled all through my 20s with wasting time on pointless things and rarely making progress on what mattered. Finally, I came up with a fairly short list of key priorities — family, faith, fitness, career, friends, reading/writing and community service — and started zeroing in on those. It’s worked pretty well for about 10 years, and it’s not complicated. Every month or so, I review this list. If I’m spending time on things that aren’t on it, I try to stop. I still do manage to waste time, but not nearly as much as before.
Stephen Martin recently posted … 3 Good Ways to Go to Extremes
Stephen, you have an awesome way of staying focused on what matters most. I think most people run on automatic pilot or spend most of their time shifting between two extremes: wasting time on what doesn’t matter and putting out fires at work or in their relationships for having wasted time on what didn’t matter.
But by reducing life to those things that matter most and writing them down, living life on purpose, really, you’ve created something we all could learn from! Thanks so much for sharing it here.
As for wasting time, some of what we consider time wasters are not always wastes of time, when done in small doses as a way to clear the mind or relax and renew for a few minutes before picking up the next responsibility.
Well said, Stephen. Appreciated!
You make an excellent point, Ken, about the value of wasting time. Barbara Fredrickson, who is a pioneer in the field of positive psychology, has done a lot of convincing research showing that down time is crucial not only for creating break-through insights but also for building a more generally positive attitude. I could stand to be a little more deliberate about not being too deliberate all the time — thanks for the reminder!
Stephen Martin recently posted … 3 Good Ways to Go to Extremes
I’m with you, Stephen! I can actually start feeling guilty for sitting down to watch TV. I always feel like there is something better I should be doing!
Today was a dim day for me, you brightened it up by informing me of the essential thank you.
Brandon Dean recently posted … Increasing Your Attention Span
Hey Brandon,
Glad to be of use! Thanks for sharing that with me. Means a lot! Hope tomorrow is bigger and brighter! But if not, hope your heart is able to shine its own light into the dimness!
Ken – I relate to this post. My top priority is a healthy mind in a healthy body….that matters alot!
Absolutely, Lucille. The body is the vehicle. The mind is the engine. Both are needed. Still, as long as my mind is intact and my body is functional, I think I can cope with a body that starts giving me problems. But when my mind goes (and some may argue it already has!), that’s when I hope life’s great extension cord gets unplugged!
I especially liked what you said about faith as a principle of action. You hit on four areas of life that all create a foundation for living well. I might add #5–Joy. But really, if you are living by the first four, joy is sure to follow. I think, though, that in our society, we sometimes think that joy is frivolous, when in fact it is the deepest longing of our spirits, the song that calls us home.
Galen Pearl recently posted … On Judging Others
I love your addition, Galen!
Truth is, this article was much longer than it is — too long. So I broke it in half and am sending the other out as a guest post. That one has happiness (joy). So we are definitely kindred spirits here! 🙂
You’re right about joy following the way we live the other principles. At least much more than without them. You also make a great point about joy being seen as frivolous. I wrote an article back a bit ago titled Happiness Ain’t for Sissies to make that point exactly. Happiness at the level of its potential requires quite a bit from most of us. It’s the byproduct of how we live and think and believe and the things we choose to fill our time with (and what we exclude from our lives as well).
Thanks for the reminder, Galen!
Hi Ken, I agree with the four things and the thrust of the article. I especially like ‘eating the meal rather than the receipt’.
Evan recently posted … Authenticity is the Killer App for an Emotionally Satisfying Life
Thanks Evan,
I love language and have some fun playing with thoughts such as eating receipts and all. Thanks for noticing! 🙂
Hi Ken,
It’s true. A life without purpose dedicated to something that truly matters is empty and meaningless. For me, if I am at the point between life and death and it doesn’t matter to me, then it is not something that truly matters. That said, I love the 4 things that you have shared which truly matter.
For me relationships matter the most. Without family and friends to live for, even if I had the whole world, it would have no meaning to me. Not to mention it is a lot of work to manage the whole world in the first place. Living for ourselves is well and good, but when we live to nurture and protect others who are dear to us, we unleash our fullest potential and drive.
Thank you for sharing this lovely article!
Irving the Vizier
The Vizier recently posted … A Good Ending for a New Beginning
Perfectly said, Irving!
Haha! I’m definitely with you on this one: I can barely get my little boy to listen to me. Managing the whole world? No thanks! 😉
Life is really all about relationships. Family, neighbors, even our relationship with God, for those who believe. Our relationships with ourselves is also a critical one to nurture. Even our moral character is no isolated condition. It is measured by how we treat others. When you remove relationships from life’s experience, for that matter, you’re left with nothing but things, just a bunch of bells and whistles that don’t mean much of themselves.
Thanks for the wisdom, Irving.
Hi Ken!
These are three great values. I thought at first I couldn’t think outside of them but then I found what mine were (possibly added on to yours):
Family, Friendships (you got these under “relationships”)
Laughter, fun
Meaning
Spiritual growth, introspection (you said “faith” – close.
I think an awareness of life and your place in it is paramount to living a full life. Lately I have been working at getting into the moment. (Will blog about that next week!)
Nice seeing you Ken!
Lori
Lori Gosselin recently posted … Is it Better to Have Loved and Lost…
I love these additions, Lori!
This post was originally way too long (about 2,000 words), so I took three of the things that matter out and am sending them off as a guest post (still editing) somewhere. They will include integrity, wisdom and happiness.
Some of them nudge up pretty close to some of yours, but I like what you added, especially spiritual growth. It’s so easy to neglect spiritual growth, but there is a cost to that neglect in our personal lives.
I think all of them together (yours and mine) create a meaningful life, so that’s probably covered indirectly.
I’m glad you thought about it for a minute. You added a great list of things that matter!
I put together a workbook to help people focus their time on things that matter to them. The first step is to identify your core values. It’s amazing how many people have never even considered this. Decisions become much easier when we’re clear about our values. During my day when I have too many things to do and I’m wondering what I should do next, I mentally check how my to-do’s match up to my top values. That makes it easy to pick what to do next with little guilt about not doing all the other things on my list.
I completely agree with you on the value of relationships. Relationships are everything. It took me a while to realize this as I flew through life in my earlier years. Having a family drives it all home.
And, without faith, we would never move forward. We would spend our lives encased in fear. Releasing attachments and control and having faith that a higher power has our best interest in mind allows us to move mountains.
Thanks again for an awesome post Ken!!
Paige | simple mindfulness recently posted … Letting Go
Sounds like a great workbook you’ve put together, Paige! I agree with you that’s it’s even a little disconcerting how few people seem to have thought through their core values much. It’s hard to live by a set of values that haven’t been worked out yet. I love they way you can use your core values as a way to help guide your decisions everyday about how you’ll spend your time.
I’m still learning! While I know how important family is, I’m still learning how to deliver that message to others in ways they can recognize. I like this: “having faith that a higher power has our best interest in mind allows us to move mountains.” Nicely said.
And thank you for an awesome comment, Paige!
Wow, a powerful article Ken!
The self-respect part stood out to me the most. The more I work on myself and the further I get on my own journey, the more important it becomes, so much so that alot of the things I used to do or certain people I used to hang around aren’t in my life anymore.
It’s actually a cool coincidence I read this post, as I just made a video yesterday on a similar subject.
https://vimeo.com/41542154
-Ben
Ben recently posted … WHAT DO I STAND FOR!!!
Thanks so much, Ben!
You just put your finger on a point I think is so critical to people trying to find something in their lives to get passionate about. They stand around waiting for something to fall out of the sky instead of going out and doing and acting and trying. But it’s usually only when we start doing a thing, working on it, engaging it, that we start to get passionate about it. We see the initial quivers of our efforts in the effect it has on us and we get excited. The more we do, the more passionate we get about doing it.
I remember going through this same process, Ben. I started to do things and think things and believe things differently than the group of friends I had, and really quite naturally, we became more and more distant. With me it was a very natural process, not a rejection or a better-than-thou attitude at all. We were just no longer compatible. And those feelings went in both directions.
Wise words, here, Ben. Very wise words.
Great article, Ken. My faith matters to me more than anything else. It’s the thing that’s brought me out of the darkness that would’ve inevitably been my life – based on my childhood.
My faith makes me see everything in a positive light. Like you said, it brings hope in things that seem otherwise hopeless to the faithless.
Another very encouraging post. Thank you.
Anne recently posted … How to Build Confidence In Your Kids Today
I know what you mean about your faith, Anne.
So glad you were brought out of that dark place. You are such a source of joy for people. I love reading what you have to say, always packed so full of insight.
Faith truly is a powerful source of strength to those who have it. It changes perspective and acts as a light at the end of very long tunnels.
Thanks for sharing your wonderful thoughts, Anne!
hey Ken
that’s so right
especially faith. when you have faith you become truly unstoppable and you always have hope that things are going to be better
Hey Farouk,
Faith can propel us through the most difficult and challenging circumstances imaginable. I remember reading Frankl’s account of the Holocaust and how he saw in the eyes of inmates the moment they had lost hope. He could almost count the days left before they died once that light went out in their eyes. Faith and hope are truly powerful forces in our lives. Thanks for the comment, buddy!
You made my day ken! Absolutely what answers I was looking for. I start today. Being negative gets one no where. cribbing over valueless things make you lose what was actually valuable for you. looking more onto the packaging and not valuing the substance would leave oneself unhappy, rest goes on! Life doesn’t stop for us or our cribbing. Its all in our hands, any given day can be perfect, its what we make out of it!
God bless you! 🙂 This post was what I wanted today! Thank you!
That’s awesome, Urooj! That means a lot to me. Thanks so much for sharing your beautiful thoughts. I loved the free-flow feel of your comments. And you’re right, ultimately, it is all in our hands to move our lives forward, stagnate or backstep.
God bless you too, Urooj! So glad you found value here.
Days pass us by without being filled with meaning, as we fail to recognize the important things in life. It is great to be reminded so that we can again fulfill and honour our purpose,. through being focused and ensuring we follow the right direction.
Faith, Relationships, Self respect and Values, you’re right on point.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much for your comment, Miz Harris! I particularly like the idea of “honoring our purpose.” It really is an act of honor to learn and then do what we were meant to do and be. But life can get complicated and in that complication, it’s easy to lose focus and forget why we were put here in the first place. To know what values are most important and how we can honor those values is to make all the frivolous in life easier to avoid because we instantly recognize it for the distractions they are.
Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts!
Knowing yourself matters!
Knowing yourself will lead to the others I believe, to know what values we hold, what faith we hold…
Noch Noch
Noch Noch | be me. be natural. recently posted … for me the bells toll – taking a break, getting married
True, Noch Noch. But sometimes adopting values and faith we were not necessarily raised with can help us discover who were truly are. Sometimes family and even ethnic cultures can obscure aspects of the real us, who we were meant to be. Adopting more accurate beliefs and stepping up to principle-centered values is like turning on a light that allows us to see ourselves in the mirror more clearly.
Such an inspiring text! I really like your point on the importance of respecting ourselves, some of us can really forget about it, and that’s why they all act to shy to reach their goals.
Katrin recently posted … Der schönste Sonnenuntergang
Hi Katrin,
Self-respect is essential. Without it, we let others run us over, with us very often either in the drivers seat or giving directions. Self-respect also helps keep us true to higher principles. We hold ourselves up to a high standard because that’s how much we think of ourselves. You’re right, though. It can be easy to forget. That’s why having an accurate understanding of our divine potential helps us to see ourselves the way I believe God sees us.
Thanks so much for swinging by and sharing your thoughts here. I truly appreciate it.
Great post Ken.
I couldn’t agree more with your points. They are genuine markers of concious living.
Personally I would like to stress on relationships.
While people are getting busier than ever losing themeselves in digital forest and getting addicted to virtual lifestyles, it has become really alraming that the warmth of people- to- people relationship is diminishing. It’s
Teens spend tons of time posting not so cool photos on social networks.
They have started living life in digital terms. They don’t care what others REALLY think. Instead, they evaluate the the feedbacks based on likes and retweets rather than meeting people in person and sharing some genuine conversations and seeking advice.
Isn’t it a dangerous trend?
I am not against technology, I can clearly see how social networks are distroying people relationships.
What you think Ken?
I would like to hear about your thoughts on this.
Naveen Kulkarni recently posted … A Step by Step Guide For Solving Complex Problems In Your Life
Naveen, I do agree with you. As you may know, I’m a high school teacher by day. Many of my students friend my on Facebook soon after the graduate because I have a No Facebook policy with current students. But I’ve had to unfriend many of my former students because of the crude and vulgar posts and some of the photos they post.
I’ve also seen groups of friends sitting in my classroom after school, each of them texting other people, not talking to each other. There are addictive qualities to their obsessions with the instant access their Iphones give them these days. There’s also the sexting trend that is disturbing on a whole other level.
Technology has increased the number of friends most people seem to have but made those relationships more shallow and superficial. It’s a fascinating and, to me, sad social phenomenon. I don’t think it’s a very healthy trade off.
Thanks for your thoughts, Naveen. Looks like I share your concerns.
I really liked your afterthoughts analogies about the Christmas presents and rollercoasters! I do remember you served well as my teacher, but I really never knew you had such a penchant for words and analogies. I always thought of you as a clumsy giant! No offense. I just remember this towering, jolly guy who spoke normal/average English hahaha. Keep up the good work!
Haha! Hi Tracy! So good to see you here!
At 6’4″ among, well, less than 6’4″ people, I suppose I would be larger than what you were used to. Clumsy? Sort of, perhaps. Not usually, but I can’t stand still and talk. I have to walk around. And when I get passionate about something, I walk more and think about where I’m walking less. You add into that mix a bunch of stuff like fans, a podium and a cart stacked with electronic component with cords strung across the classroom, and, well, you have a recipe for some funny stumbling moments. Oh well.
As for the words, when I first became a teacher, I would use more sophisticated language simply because that’s how I spoke. But then I found myself having to explain and define everything I said such that I wasn’t able to complete too many thoughts without interruption (and complaints about the words I used, especially given the ESL population there). So over the years I learned to tone it down a bit for the purpose of being understood. I still pause sometimes to think of a word instead of the one I would have more naturally used.
But thanks for the compliment tucked nicely into the pocket of, well, less complimentary memories of me. Haha! 😉
You have said that:
“3. Faith Matters
We live in an age of growing faithlessness. People have lost faith in tradition and God, in organized religion, in the institution of marriage and in others. There is less faith in governments and programs and ideologies, in political parties and even in humanity…”
What I see in the past and today’s world is that blind faith in cultures and religions causes enormous problems in the society such as religious wars, inequality between men and women, inequality of gay people, freedom to think on your own, to progress science and our understanding of the Universe.
What I think this 3rd “thing” should be call is optimism and hope. For example, I am very optimistic that through technology, increased transparency, communication and online/offline social communities we can lead great life, helping others and become part of something bigger.
Why do I need God, traditions and other ideologies that typically prevent people from being truly free and making educating decisions? If needed one can always stick with spirituality and more accepting ideologies like Budhism.
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment, Zdenek.
I agree with you about blind faith. But there is a brand of faith that is not blind at all. It is a thoughtful faith, one that is come upon by virtue of questions being asked and answers being sought and spiritual confirmations being received. It is an eyes-wide-open faith that has at its core a spiritual ratification of, at least, the central tenets of the faith. I believe God gave us the brains to think. He expects us to use them.
Most of the crazy faith-based behavior we read about in the news comes from what I believe to be deeply troubled people. They lack something of substance in their lives, so they cling to an ideology that helps them feel better by virtue of those they persecute or by circling the wagons to fight those they deem their enemy and persecutors, whether those ideologies come in the form of radical religious sects or secular belief systems, it’s largely the same.
As for religious wars, there have been many. But I think the general brutality of the historical context is important to keep in mind. Medieval Kings would have butchered people with or without the sanction of organized religion. Any specific or particular war may or may not be attributable to religion. But the larger point is that there have been brutal times and brutal cultures. To attribute all ugliness of former times to religion is a mistake that ignores larger contexts at play. What I find interesting is that the most destructive ideas to humanity in modern times has been at the hands of secular ideologies, namely communism and nazism.
As for your faith in “technology, increased transparency, communication and online/offline social communities,” I agree, to a point. I wouldn’t do what I do here if I didn’t think becoming part of something bigger was a worthwhile goal and that technology et al would be the means of reaching that goal of helping others. But you’re really talking about tools rather than beliefs here. And tools are neutral. A hammer can be used to build a homeless shelter and to bludgeon a homeless person to death. Any bad idea can just as easily use the same things you praised to inflict horror on the world. The tool can’t save. It can only make it easier for good ideas to reach others to bless and serve. The tool is only as good as the idea it’s used to promote.
Religion is not some dogma inflicted on the benighted masses. It’s a belief system that reflects the core beliefs of its adherents. It’s a set of ideas and doctrine that conveys the faith of those who join themselves to it. Just as any secular parent would pass on their beliefs to their children, teaching them to love and be compassionate and serve and learn and develop those traits they hold to be vital to living a decent life, so religious parents do the same. Yet for some reason, only the religious parents are said to be indoctrinating their young. Interesting.
If one group of people center their claims to truth in spirituality and congregate online to discuss what they believe and how to help themselves and others reach some improved level of decency or happiness or enlightenment or success, then other religious groups that organizes their beliefs around certain scriptural understandings of God are largely doing the same thing.
One difference, perhaps, is the codification of those beliefs. But again, the codified beliefs aren’t imposed on others. They are believed and accepted by others. It was the use of our minds that led them to the church door, so to speak, that put them in the building, that led them to the faith they now cherish.
As for opposing science, even scientists oppose each other, writing critiques of other scientific dogma. Even Einstein’s theory of relativity has been challenged by a group of physicists recently, as reported in USA Today. But none of these physicists are being called anti-science. It’s just when a critique is made by a religionist that the critique or challenge is claimed to be anti-scientific. Again, interesting.
But here’s my bottom line: The search for truth excites me. I’m driven by it. I want to know it, to understand it and to share that understanding with others. Truth truly does set us free. It provides us with the knowledge of things as they truly are. We’re moved from the prisons of ignorance into the open fields of knowledge and understanding and enlightenment. Faith is not so utilitarian that people can simply choose to believe in spirituality of Buddhism instead by virtue of their purported increased tolerance. It’s the belief that what they follow is true or not. Conscience and integrity dictates faith once truth has been discovered or revealed.
So it’s not that God is a tool to be picked up and used by the morally clumsy, but is or is not a reality that suggests a particular purpose and understanding to the whole point of the universe and life and us right here right now experiencing it. If God exists, He created us with the capacity to think and rationalize and discover and ask and test and create the very science you say religion denigrates.
As for traditions, families have them and individuals have them, friends have them, schools have them, clubs have them, even countries have them. I don’t see most of them as limiting or preventing educated decisions. Rather, they aid us in the decisions we make. Tradition can be a powerful tool to convey basic principles of the faith, purpose and meaning to others and to remind ourselves of the significance of certain beliefs and behaviors.
Well, Zdenek, you likely got way more here than anticipated. And I even didn’t know I would write so much when I first started typing out a reply. But I deeply thank you for expressing your thoughts. Challenges are certainly welcome here, because truth is the aim. One of my blogs mottoes is to “think with clarity.” That’s accomplished when ideas can freely compete in the free market of thought.
I would love to hear what you think about what I wrote.
I am sorry I mistakenly posted my reply in a separate post below =)
Cheers
Thanks so much for the thoughtful comment, Zdenek.
-> it is my pleasure =)
I agree with you about blind faith. But there is a brand of faith that is not blind at all. It is a thoughtful faith, one that is come upon by virtue of questions being asked and answers being sought and spiritual confirmations being received. It is an eyes-wide-open faith that has at its core a spiritual ratification of, at least, the central tenets of the faith. I believe God gave us the brains to think. He expects us to use them.
-> I am confused. If faith is not based on scientific observations, facts and proofs then how it is not blind? What I see is that scientific and social progress (enlightenment) is continuously improves our understanding and removes old beliefs. Faith seem to limit people’s ability to stay open to possibilities and critisism of their faith. Faith, because of its tenants, creates a rigid framework of thinking that one cannot change because one would have to re-written bible?
Most of the crazy faith-based behavior we read about in the news comes from what I believe to be deeply troubled people. They lack something of substance in their lives, so they cling to an ideology that helps them feel better by virtue of those they persecute or by circling the wagons to fight those they deem their enemy and persecutors,
whether those ideologies come in the form of radical religious sects or secular belief systems, it’s largely the same.
-> I agree with you that many people have mental problems and I also strongly believe that lack of good education is to blame. Some people are psychopaths so there is not much that can be done for them at the moment.
-> I have to point out a common misconception I also see in your reply. There is no such thing as “secular belief system”. Why? Similarly to the fact that we have astronomers but not non-astronomers or non-actors or non-democracies. We have various beliefs systems but some use religious framework (like Christianity) while others are based on pseudo-theories (like Communism and Fascism).
As for religious wars, there have been many. But I think the general brutality of the historical context is important to keep in mind. Medieval Kings would have butchered people with or without the sanction of organized religion. Any specific or particular war may or may not be attributable to religion. But the larger point is that there have been brutal times and brutal cultures. To attribute all ugliness of former times to religion is a mistake that ignores larger contexts at play. What I find interesting is that the most destructive ideas to humanity in modern times has been at the hands of secular ideologies, namely communism and nazism.
-> Again because Communism and Fascism did not embrace or even forbid religions that does not make them secular. These were ideologies based on crazy ideas not supported by science or good moral framework and they used their ideology to justify brutality and dictactorship. Their leaders were psychopaths and do not represent in any way people that have ideals I would encourage to follow.
-> If you want to compare religion to another framework then I think you have to look at UN Human Rights and Freedoms which is a framework of universal morality. Then you add mix of democracy and regulated capitalism to get best of systems human history experienced. Not necessary a perfect one in all aspects but the best we seem to have at the moment.
As for your faith in “technology, increased transparency, communication and online/offline social communities,” I agree, to a point. I wouldn’t do what I do here if I didn’t think becoming part of something bigger was a worthwhile goal and that technology et al would be the means of reaching that goal of helping others. But you’re really talking about tools rather than beliefs here. And tools are neutral. A hammer can be used to build a homeless shelter and to bludgeon a homeless person to death. Any bad idea can just as easily use the same things you praised to inflict horror on the world. The tool can’t save. It can only make it easier for good ideas to reach others to bless and serve. The tool is only as good as the idea it’s used to promote.
-> I think there is more involved then you realize. In order to be able to have tools such as the Internet, the society had to progress in both social and technological aspects. This in turns allows greater freedom of information (necessary for society to evolve its democratic system) and it makes education accessible and more effective. Just by being able to exchange ideas here we both learn somewhat. The Internet creates huge opportunities for businesses and more importantly for people to enable better social systems.
Religion is not some dogma inflicted on the benighted masses. It’s a belief system that reflects the core beliefs of its adherents. It’s a set of ideas and doctrine that conveys the faith of those who join themselves to it. Just as any secular parent would pass on their beliefs to their children, teaching them to love and be compassionate and serve and learn and develop those traits they hold to be vital to living a decent life, so religious parents do the same. Yet for some reason, only the religious parents are said to be indoctrinating their young. Interesting.
-> I disagree. Frequently I see kids in religious families are not given the option to join their parent’s religion. They are forced to attend church and bible studies. They are also presented religious beliefs as facts. Meanwhile kids in non-religious families are typically raised with open mind as they are encourage to critique anything, observe and query everything. Scientific knowledge is given to them as not an ultimate truth but rather ever evolving current understanding of the Universe. Science is presented as the best we are able to assert to certain degree and things are expected to evolve. This is in a contrast to kids from religious families where questioning or doubting the word of God is usually not accepted well.
If one group of people center their claims to truth in spirituality and congregate online to discuss what they believe and how to help themselves and others reach some improved level of decency or happiness or enlightenment or success, then other religious groups that organizes their beliefs around certain scriptural understandings of God are largely doing the same thing.
One difference, perhaps, is the codification of those beliefs. But again, the codified beliefs aren’t imposed on others. They are believed and accepted by others. It was the use of our minds that led them to the church door, so to speak, that put them in the building, that led them to the faith they now cherish
-> Unfortunately many times beliefs are imposed on others even by moderates. We can see this esp. in Southern states where religious ideas are being forced into the school system (like Intelligent Design). We also see people voting politicians based on their religious beliefs to ensure those are upheld for all cost over understanding how real world issues will be negatively affected by these politicians (e.g. Bush and his war in Iraq).
As for opposing science, even scientists oppose each other, writing critiques of other scientific dogma. Even Einstein’s theory of relativity has been challenged by a group of physicists recently, as reported in USA Today. But none of these physicists are being called anti-science. It’s just when a critique is made by a religionist that the critique or challenge is claimed to be anti-scientific. Again, interesting.
-> Science and scientific commmunity actually encourages and needs critisism. Science is based on peer reviews and no theory or fact is final or presented as ultimate truth. Rather science represents ongoing refinment of our knowledge based on better instruments and knowledge of the Universe. Old theories are expected to be replaced by new better theories that give us more accurate understanding of physical laws.
I can’t comment on what USA Today says but claims in scientific journals or critisism in general is accepted if it has solid proof and observations that dispute existing theories.
The problem with critique from religious people is that they do not follow established scientific processes. Rather they base their claims and critiques on personal feeling, common sense and wishful thinking. A good example is Intelligent Design which is an idea not a scientific theory because it cannot be proven, tested, observed and measured.
But here’s my bottom line: The search for truth excites me. I’m driven by it. I want to know it, to understand it and to share that understanding with others. Truth truly does set us free. It provides us with the knowledge of things as they truly are. We’re moved from the prisons of ignorance into the open fields of knowledge and understanding and enlightenment. Faith is not so utilitarian that people can simply choose to believe in spirituality of Buddhism instead by virtue of their purported increased tolerance. It’s the belief that what they follow is true or not. Conscience and integrity dictates faith once truth has been discovered or revealed.
-> It is great to hear your excitment about searching for truth as I share the same ideal. I agree that truth and knowledge sets us free.
So it’s not that God is a tool to be picked up and used by the morally clumsy, but is or is not a reality that suggests a particular purpose and understanding to the whole point of the universe and life and us right here right now experiencing it. If God exists, He created us with the capacity to think and rationalize and discover and ask and test and create the very science you say religion denigrates.
-> It is possible that there is a God. However with open mind we can also say that it is possible that we don’t have any significant role in the Universe or even worse we are a byproduct like a virus. I hope that is not the case but we just don’t know =)
As for traditions, families have them and individuals have them, friends have them, schools have them, clubs have them, even countries have them. I don’t see most of them as limiting or preventing educated decisions. Rather, they aid us in the decisions we make. Tradition can be a powerful tool to convey basic principles of the faith, purpose and meaning to others and to remind ourselves of the significance of certain beliefs and behaviors.
-> I agree that many traditions, like dance, music, arts and holidays being joy and happiness. However I many traditions go against human rights and equality and are obstacle in social progress. For example, in India women are usually not allowed to choose their husbands as their fathers (family) make that choice. In China girls are traditionally considered less worth than boys. Traditions dictate women life (stay at home, obey husband etc) in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. In many Afrikan countries girls are forced to be circumsized and to marry/have babies at very early again (15yrs and earlier). In many Asian countries traditions make younger kids or adults to show respect to older one just because of age rather than merit, character and doing good. And so on.
-> Traditions are the result of men in power using their power over less powerful women. That is the sad part of traditions.
Well, Zdenek, you likely got way more here than anticipated. And I even didn’t know I would write so much when I first started typing out a reply. But I deeply thank you for expressing your thoughts. Challenges are certainly welcome here, because truth is the aim. One of my blogs mottoes is to “think with clarity.” That’s accomplished when ideas can freely compete in the free market of thought.
-> Sorry for my late reply but I lost my answers due to a technical glitch (isn’t that funny) when I was writting a response. I really appreaciate and welcome your reply. I agree we do need ideas to freely compete and we need to have an open mind.
I would love to hear what you think about what I wrote.
-> I am looking forward your reply =)
Love this! Thanks Zdenek. Okay, you ready for the ridiculously long reply?
Here it is:
You: I am confused. If faith is not based on scientific observations, facts and proofs then how it is not blind? What I see is that scientific and social progress (enlightenment) is continuously improves our understanding and removes old beliefs. Faith seem to limit people’s ability to stay open to possibilities and critisism of their faith. Faith, because of its tenants, creates a rigid framework of thinking that one cannot change because one would have to re-written bible?
Me: The phrase blind faith has a specific meaning. It means to follow something without question or thought. That’s the kind of faith I was agreeing was inadequate at best. But my explanation was in my response. There is a faith that is an answer to questions. Not test tubes and laboratories, but answered nonetheless. Love can’t be measured on a scale, discovered by virtue of an experiment. Hope, friendship, compassion and many other facts of life can’t be put to the scientific method for ratification. They exist even though they can’t be scientifically proven. The lack of science’s ability to speak to such things doesn’t diminish science or those qualities. It simply means that science is limited to what it does. There is a human element that is beyond the scientific approach. Sure, facets and elements of that human experience (and even love and compassion and the like can be identified biochemically), but science is blind to the essence and human depth to such things.
So with spiritual matters. Science may not be able to test the validity of God. But we can experientially. Those who have a more mature faith in God and religion have arrived there through bits if inspiration, ratifying experiences of the soul. There is no blindness to it even if others have never opened that “eye” by which to see spiritual things. There is a communication by spiritual means from spirit to spirit. And there is a confidence that breeds a conviction in that communication to the heart that evidence to the brain doesn’t usually engender.
Are some people closed and limited by and in their faith? Of course. But religious people have no monopoly on that human trait. It’s just easier to identify the philosophical foundation to their close-mindedness. I have known many atheists as closed to the concept of God as theists can be closed to the concept of an idea that lies outside the doctrine of their faith. Rigid frameworks of thinking have their home in many different philosophies, not just religious. A blind dedication to the scientific method is itself a closed framework of sorts. Just ask homeopathic practitioners what they think of the framework of thinking of the scientific field of medicine.
You: I agree with you that many people have mental problems and I also strongly believe that lack of good education is to blame. Some people are psychopaths so there is not much that can be done for them at the moment.
I have to point out a common misconception I also see in your reply. There is no such thing as “secular belief system”. Why? Similarly to the fact that we have astronomers but not non-astronomers or non-actors or non-democracies. We have various beliefs systems but some use religious framework (like Christianity) while others are based on pseudo-theories (like Communism and Fascism).
Me: But in essence, you are calling religious doctrine a pseudo-theory itself. So I don’t see the difference. If there is a set of beliefs that are systematized, no matter the reason or foundation or religiosity of the people organizing themselves around it (or being forced to be organized around it), it’s a system. That’s what a system is. So I disagree with the premise of your argument on that count. Besides, there certainly are non-democracies. We in the United States fought a Cold War against the leading secular system of thought called Communism. Just because adherents of such systems are much smaller than those of religious thought, doesn’t make it less a system. Liberal ideology or progressivism as it stands today, defined by at least some significant subset of its advocates, is a secular system. Anyway, system or not, the use of the phrase certainly was not central to my argument, so I’ll leave it at that.
You: Again because Communism and Fascism did not embrace or even forbid religions that does not make them secular. These were ideologies based on crazy ideas not supported by science or good moral framework and they used their ideology to justify brutality and dictactorship. Their leaders were psychopaths and do not represent in any way people that have ideals I would encourage to follow.
Me: The term “secular” means non-religious. So any ideology built on non-religious ideas is, by definition, ipso facto, secular. The craziness of the idea in no way determines the secularity of that idea just as the craziness of any particular religious idea or set of ideas in no way discounts it as being non-secular. That you wouldn’t have or encourage people to follow those ideas is also beside the point. There are religious ideas I don’t hold and ones I would never encourage others to follow. But when you criticize a system of belief, suggesting it’s faith that leads to war and destruction, you have to be able to defend the criticism that non-religious ideas have done incalculably more damage. You can’t lump all religion and every sect into one pot and compare it to only those non-religious ideas you like a lot. That’s a logoical fallacy.
You: If you want to compare religion to another framework then I think you have to look at UN Human Rights and Freedoms which is a framework of universal morality. Then you add mix of democracy and regulated capitalism to get best of systems human history experienced. Not necessary a perfect one in all aspects but the best we seem to have at the moment.
Me: As for the UN, you completely lost me on that one as a source of moral authority. When the UN voted Syria as a member of its human rights counsel, whatever moral authority it once had was lost. The UN today is to me a source of moral indecency on many counts. So we simply see this through very different lenses. Where you point to it as a system worthy of emulation, I would point to it as evidence that secular morality is a shaky foundation.
Besides, if you remove God from morality, all you’re left with is opinion. If there is no divine source of morality, then all moral propositions are nothing more than shared opinion. Your wrong is my right, my morality is your immorality.
You: I think there is more involved then you realize. In order to be able to have tools such as the Internet, the society had to progress in both social and technological aspects. This in turns allows greater freedom of information (necessary for society to evolve its democratic system) and it makes education accessible and more effective. Just by being able to exchange ideas here we both learn somewhat. The Internet creates huge opportunities for businesses and more importantly for people to enable better social systems.
Me: Most of what can be found online is drivel and garbage, intellectually lazy and morally questionable. While the internet has shrunk the world, introducing a broader range of ideas to a larger market, it has also made making terrorism easier, sharing nuclear weaponry easier with rogue nations, found larger communities, and formed larger communities of racists and bigots and other haters. We gravitate toward those blogs and sites that have something important to say, whether we agree with every particular or not. But others of lesser character are attracted to different things, pursuing a very different way of thinking and living. Child porn is a cancer that is not abating, that has spread by virtue of the internet.
Don’t get me wrong, I love being online. I think my ideas matter and matter a lot. I want as large an audience as I can attract to hear them talk about them, debate them, implement them. That can’t be done without the internet at the level and ease I do it here. But the tool is still a neutral thing, to be used for good or ill. Education and miseducation exist side by side online. Inspiration and hate. Words that lift and words that condemn. Pictures that inspire and ones that are violent and nasty and ugly and horrible. You can find whatever it is that you want on the internet, the most beautiful or the most deprived, the most uplifting or the most vicious.
While the internet facilitates democratic movements, it also facilitates the most hideous forms of oppression. The exchange of ideas is a beautiful and moving and critical thing. But not all ideas are beautiful. How we use the internet and what we search for makes it a tool of beauty or of destruction. My point is only to suggest that putting too much faith in a tool ignores those who are not like us in temperament or moral compunction.
You: I disagree. Frequently I see kids in religious families are not given the option to join their parent’s religion. They are forced to attend church and bible studies. They are also presented religious beliefs as facts. Meanwhile kids in non-religious families are typically raised with open mind as they are encourage to critique anything, observe and query everything. Scientific knowledge is given to them as not an ultimate truth but rather ever evolving current understanding of the Universe. Science is presented as the best we are able to assert to certain degree and things are expected to evolve. This is in a contrast to kids from religious families where questioning or doubting the word of God is usually not accepted well.
Me: How many secular parents sit their young kids down and say, in effect, “We believe being kind is the right thing, but we’re not sure. We can’t say it’s best for sure, but hope you follow our example. Since we can’t be sure it’s the only way to live, we won’t scold you for treating your sister unkindly or make you speak to us respectfully or require you to attend funerals and weddings and other gatherings that express kindness to those we celebrate or offer condolences to. It is, after all, your choice whether or not to follow our lead. We are merely expressing our preference. Oh, you don’t want to go to school or otherwise be educated? Okay. It’s only our opinion that education is a good in itself. So by all means, stay home if that’s the path you choose. Who are we to impose our rigid belief system about formal education on you, our children?”
All decent parents train their children to live the way they think they ought to live. That religious parents have a weekly method of doing that, reinforcing those beliefs, doesn’t make non-religious parents any different. They simply educate and force their set of values on them (rewards and punishments) using slightly different means, or at least lacking one: a church. As for kids in religious families vs. secular families, kids in the religious families I know are certainly allowed to express their doubts and ask their questions. They are encouraged to ask the questions, otherwise, the questions quite reasonably go unanswered. I wonder if you have a unique set of people you’ve seen or perhaps a limited understanding of what mostly goes on behind closed doors.
I was raised in a secular home. Both parents were proclaimed atheists. I think most families frankly have very few discussions about observing and questioning everything. Most families talk about their day, their work, whether rooms are clean and homework done, soccer practices and dance lessons and piano recitals. So to say that one family is producing all this openness and the other all this closedness seems to me that you may be romanticizing one and a darkly viewing the other through a limited lens (as mine admittedly is also) into a life you’re not a part of. And if scientific knowledge is given to kids in secular families as the tool to discover truth, not as the truth itself (as I understand your statement as meaning), then religious families are also giving their kids spiritual tools to discover religious or spiritual and moral truths.
I just don’t see evidence of nonreligious people being particularly more open than religious people. They may be more open in some areas, but more closed in others. Just look at the university campus today. When you have people come speak to the campus about ideas they disagree with (liberalism, conservatism, any particular policy, etc.) who treats the presenter of those ideas with more respect? As a group, the religious students or the secular students? If you follow such things, the answer will be obvious. One listens and argues and engages in debate, albeit sometimes heated. The other is much more likely to shout the speaker down, disallowing the free exchange of ideas, throw pies or other objects at the person speaking and the like. Hardly less dogmatic and open minded than the religious.
You: Unfortunately many times beliefs are imposed on others even by moderates. We can see this esp. in Southern states where religious ideas are being forced into the school system (like Intelligent Design). We also see people voting politicians based on their religious beliefs to ensure those are upheld for all cost over understanding how real world issues will be negatively affected by these politicians (e.g. Bush and his war in Iraq).
Me: A religiously-based belief is just as valid a reason to vote for a person as a secular-based belief. I do have a problem with people saying their religion should be left at home when you go vote. Really? Then why not require others’ secularism to be left at home? That is itself an example of religious bigotry, not from but toward religious people. To suggest that one should not let their values direct their vote is a dangerous notion.
Where my values might come from one source and yours from another, we are equally free to vote according to the dictates of our values. Besides, no mainstream religious group I’ve ever heard of has ever spoken so undemocratically as to even discourage the secular from voting their consciences. The religious have just as much right to vote the way they think their values will be sustained as the nonreligious. And to suggest that secular humanists are not just as interested in seeing their values translated politically is looking at things through narrow lenses indeed. The religious don’t require prayer in school or Intelligent Design to be taught as the unvarnished truth, only that states and communities have the option to decide for themselves and to present religious ideas as options. It seems to me to be a great impulse of non-religious to dictate, as in banning crosses from state seals and prohibiting crèches on public property and renaming Christmas trees and celebrations.
I’m not saying here that I support one particular religious-motivated political policy or not, only to point out that the religious are not behaving as narrow-mindedly and the nonreligious as magnanimously and open-mindedly as you may be presuming.
You: Science and scientific community actually encourages and needs criticism. Science is based on peer reviews and no theory or fact is final or presented as ultimate truth. Rather science represents ongoing refinement of our knowledge based on better instruments and knowledge of the Universe. Old theories are expected to be replaced by new better theories that give us more accurate understanding of physical laws.
I can’t comment on what USA Today says but claims in scientific journals or critisism in general is accepted if it has solid proof and observations that dispute existing theories.
The problem with critique from religious people is that they do not follow established scientific processes. Rather they base their claims and critiques on personal feeling, common sense and wishful thinking. A good example is Intelligent Design which is an idea not a scientific theory because it cannot be proven, tested, observed and measured.
Me: What you say about science is true. It does rely on critique and is an ever evolving base of knowledge. But while I respect science deeply, I understand that it is only as good as the human minds that produce it. Where once science believed things laughable today, the science of the future will likely laugh at much of what we hold to be true today. Science is not the only path to truth. We need no laboratory discovery, no double-blind study, no genetic decoding to know a life of compassion is better than a life of hate, that a life of meaning and purpose is better than one of meaninglessness and purposelessness. There are things outside the purview of the scientific community. Morality and spirituality are two of those things. I won’t look to religion to know how to clone. But I won’t look to science to know whether people should be cloned. That’s not a scientific question. Science can’t answer that question. An appeal to morality can. Religion helps inform that debate.
You: It is possible that there is a God. However with open mind we can also say that it is possible that we don’t have any significant role in the Universe or even worse we are a byproduct like a virus. I hope that is not the case but we just don’t know =)
Me: I’ll largely give you that one, except to say there are spiritual ways of knowing that are outside the realm of science. Prayer is such a tool used by religious people. It can lead to insight and revelation that unfolds layers of truth as we make our own lives a petri dish of experiment, applying the truths our religious faith teaches to our lives to see what grows out of it.
You: I agree that many traditions, like dance, music, arts and holidays being joy and happiness. However I many traditions go against human rights and equality and are obstacle in social progress. For example, in India women are usually not allowed to choose their husbands as their fathers (family) make that choice. In China girls are traditionally considered less worth than boys. Traditions dictate women life (stay at home, obey husband etc) in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan etc. In many Afrikan countries girls are forced to be circumcised and to marry/have babies at very early again (15yrs and earlier). In many Asian countries traditions make younger kids or adults to show respect to older one just because of age rather than merit, character and doing good. And so on. Traditions are the result of men in power using their power over less powerful women. That is the sad part of traditions.
Me: I agree with you totally on this point. Some traditions are wonderful and some worthy of our contempt and even political sanction. Some religious ideas are exalting and some are, to use another religious term, evil. But so with secular traditions as well. Those that arise out of men oppressing women are shameful. Such shameful traditions that are motivated by a religious inclination give religion a bad name and should be equally sanctioned.
I’m having lots of fun here. Thanks for the ongoing dialogue, Zdenek.
I also look forward to your response.
PS: I didn’t proof read this, so hope it is readable!
I am sorry for my delay but I was busy enjoying the Summer and other things =)
You: Love this! Thanks Zdenek. Okay, you ready for the ridiculously long reply?
Me: Great! Yes I am ready I think =)
You: Hope, friendship, compassion and many other facts of life can’t be put to the scientific method for ratification. They exist even though they can’t be scientifically proven. Sure, facets and elements of that human experience (and even love and compassion and the like can be identified biochemically), but science is blind to the essence and human depth to such things.
Me: As you know science continues to reveal new facts about the Universe and about our bodies. I don’t think any of us can say that science cannot explain something. We continue to map our brain, genes and biological processes with increasing accuracy, knowing which regions of brain affect mood, speech, intellect and so on. We just need to wait and see?
You: There is a communication by spiritual means from spirit to spirit. And there is a confidence that breeds a conviction in that communication to the heart that evidence to the brain doesn’t usually engender.
Me: Do you believe Psychics? Do you believe in Greek Gods? What about paranormal activities? Non-Christians in India performing miracles? If you start believing spirits and non-observable things that cannot be observed then where do you stop? How do you confirm someone’s claim? Just because a mentally ill person has visions it does not mean his/her vision is real? Or people that intentionally make up claims for various reason. If you think we should acknowledge the existing of spirit to spirit communication then anything else I listed should also be acknowledged as true? Eventually we might start burning witches again? =)
You: A blind dedication to the scientific method is itself a closed framework of sorts. Just ask homeopathic practitioners what they think of the framework of thinking of the scientific field of medicine.
Me: I am not sure what do you mean by “blind dedication”? It is blind to follow scientific framework AND adjust our knowledge based on new theories and discoveries? Or is it blind to actually keep following religious doctrine that does not lend itself to revision?
Btw homeopathy is pseudo science i.e. it is not really a science but a wishful ideas sprinkled with scientific terms.
You: …the leading secular system of thought called Communism…
Me: I am not sure what are you trying to say. Communism is an economical and social system in the first place. Communism is against religion but that does not make it automatically belong to the same group as people that have no belief in God. Communism and Fascism do not represent people that do not believe in God.
You: … suggesting it’s faith that leads to war and destruction, you have to be able to defend the criticism that non-religious ideas have done incalculably more damage. You can’t lump all religion and every sect into one pot and compare it to only those non-religious ideas you like a lot. That’s a logical fallacy.
Me: What I am suggesting is that religion has common problems that Communism and Fascism have. They have rigid belief system that is not based on facts but rather ideas that they believe to be correct and indisputable. As a result, religion is prone to be used to promote intolerance and violence. It is good that Christianity members over centuries progressed to avoid, on most parts, using violence that is being justified by their beliefs. Unfortunately that is still not case in many parts of the world.
You: As for the UN, you completely lost me on that one as a source of moral authority.
Me: I never said UN is a source of moral authority. I said that UN published a universal moral framework that most countries acknowledged as a basic common moral framework that is common to all human beings.
You: When the UN voted Syria as a member of its human rights counsel, whatever moral authority it once had was lost.
Me: Again UN cannot enforce universal human rights because some of its members, like Russia and China, are non-democractic states that do not in practice uphold human rights. They can’t because that would lead to the removal of its regime.
You: Besides, if you remove God from morality, all you’re left with is opinion. If there is no divine source of morality, then all moral propositions are nothing more than shared opinion. Your wrong is my right, my morality is your immorality.
Me: This is common view between religious individuals. This is not correct. First, with even with God people interpret their morality how it suites them. Otherwise with Bible there would be no crusades, no fights between Catholics and Protestants over the centuries or between various sects of Muslim world. Where is your morality in these cases? Where is the source of morality if it can be interpreted in any way?
Also, where is in Bible written anything about the rights of gays, black people, how it deals with abortion rights, freedom of speech, man and women equality and so on? Sure it has a few very basic principles but not much more.
Just equality between man and woman had to be fought for by intelligent people over centuries rather than dictated by Church as a basic rule.
On other hand, through science and logical reasoning one can arrive to the general morality framework as many did before (e.g. UN Chart of Human Rights). The basic premise is that all humans (and living thing) want to a) have freedom, b) avoid pain and c) be able to determine their destiny. From these fundamental principles you can start building universal morality framework?
You: Most of what can be found online is drivel and garbage, intellectually lazy and morally questionable. While the internet has shrunk the world, introducing a broader range of ideas to a larger market, it has also made making terrorism easier, sharing nuclear weaponry easier with rogue nations, found larger communities, and formed larger communities of racists and bigots and other haters. We gravitate toward those blogs and sites that have something important to say, whether we agree with every particular or not. But others of lesser character are attracted to different things, pursuing a very different way of thinking and living. Child porn is a cancer that is not abating, that has spread by virtue of the internet.
Me: I am surprised by your statement. Wikipedia has millions of pages that billions of people around the world using daily to learn and educate themselves. That was not possible before. Not it is free and overall better (not perfect) than any encyclopedia ever published. Just a decade ago you had to go to the library and hope to find anything.
We also see amazing growth in online communities like TED (amazing and inspirational speeches). Millions of people are helping each other because they can through online means – engineers coordinate to help build cheap shelters for people in Africa, volunteers teach others online languages, free online Khan Academy with over thousand videos that are helping millions of students to learn math, physics, chemistry and so on every day. Kickstart allows users to help small startups and individuals to come up with amazing products and services. I could keep going on. One has to search for good stuff and it is easy to find. States like Libya, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Tunisia and so on are experiencing amazing changes in their societies in part because of the Internet knowledge. Actually everywhere people can access the Internet they start to learn about the world and how to live better instead of being brainwash by their state media.
With terrorists and pedophiles the technology actually helps to track these people. They will always be such individuals but now we can track them. How this tiny problem really compares to the good coming out of huge community and knowledge that is poring to billions of homes?
You: But the tool is still a neutral thing, to be used for good or ill. Education and miseducation exist side by side online. Inspiration and hate. Words that lift and words that condemn. Pictures that inspire and ones that are violent and nasty and ugly and horrible. You can find whatever it is that you want on the internet, the most beautiful or the most deprived, the most uplifting or the most vicious.
Me: So lets forbid books? Because from billions of books published we have a few thousands books that are used by terrorists and murders? What about cars? They kill people. What about knifes? They also kill people. Or lets just shut down the Internet. We should forbid all those? Yes every tool can be abused but if majority of time the tool is benefit to the society then we should use it and minimize the bad effects. Otherwise you would never be able to do anything.
You: While the internet facilitates democratic movements, it also facilitates the most hideous forms of oppression. The exchange of ideas is a beautiful and moving and critical thing. But not all ideas are beautiful. How we use the internet and what we search for makes it a tool of beauty or of destruction. My point is only to suggest that putting too much faith in a tool ignores those who are not like us in temperament or moral compunction.
Me: Tools can be adjusted to serve better. That is why YouTube, for example, or other tools scan posts and remove anything that is against the law. However we do need to allow offending ideas to flow freely.
You: I think most families frankly have very few discussions about observing and questioning everything
I agree and I find it unfortunate. Parents should discuss with kids stuff that matters. Luckily with the Internet their kids can catch up with better understanding of the society, world and themselves.
You: ..Since we can’t be sure it’s the only way to live, we won’t scold you for treating your sister unkindly..
That does not make sense. Secular parents can use universal morality to discuss and decide on fundamental issues like not hurting others (because no one wants to be hurt). When it comes down to personal choices then secular parents give advise and ideas but do not claim to know the best way.
You: about secular parents:…Who are we to impose our rigid belief system about formal education on you, our children?
There is ridgit school system but parents do not need to be rigid about much except the fact (from observations) that education is important for the individual and society. Basic assumption like this can be made. If you dispute that then I have nothing more to say to that. The point is that secular parents are usually making much fewer rules because they don’t need to follow any book. They just need to lay down basic framework that is based on observations about this world, not on what somebody wrote in a book 2000 years ago. Children can then observe whether that is true and make sense.
Chilren should not be force to go to Church and be “educated” about things nobody can observe and prove. They should be given choice. That is a major problem I see with religious parents.
You: A religiously-based belief is just as valid a reason to vote for a person as a secular-based belief. I do have a problem with people saying their religion should be left at home when you go vote. Really? Then why not require others’ secularism to be left at home? That is itself an example of religious bigotry, not from but toward religious people. To suggest that one should not let their values direct their vote is a dangerous notion.
Me: So why do you think we have separation of Church and State? Because when those two are together then state does what religion dictates while affect many people that don’t belief that specific religion. What if the politician is Jehovah Witness and promotes law to forbid blood transfusion?
You: The religious don’t require prayer in school or Intelligent Design to be taught as the unvarnished truth, only that states and communities have the option to decide for themselves and to present religious ideas as options.
Me: So should we start including all religious beliefs in our schools? If Intelligent Design is an option, why not other psedo-theories that people come up with about UFOs and miracles etc? And why kids should learn about Intelligent Design in a scientific class? Perhaps philosophical class can cover such ideas.
You: Where once science believed things laughable today, the science of the future will likely laugh at much of what we hold to be true today.
This is another misconception. What is science today laugh about? Newton laws are still valid today as they were before. We just have more accurate laws nowadays. Evolution theory that Darwin laid out holds today, we just improve it and adjust it. Every single field of science builds on top of previous knowledge and improves it.
You: I won’t look to religion to know how to clone. But I won’t look to science to know whether people should be cloned. That’s not a scientific question. Science can’t answer that question. An appeal to morality can. Religion helps inform that debate.
Me: Really? So what Bible says in particular about cloning? I didn’t know the concept is even in the Bible. And that is the huge problem. On other hand using 1. universal morality I mentioned above (be free of pain, have freedom) and 2. scientific observations can help us determine what is right or not. Cloning is a complex topic and it is neither good nor bad. It depends on specific situation, who is involved, how people are affected, how is society affected and so on. With Bible you try to find something that could somehow related but with scientific mind you use basic morality framework and observations to decide, with certain degree of certainty, what to do.
I am not saying that with science and universal morality we can make perfect decisions. Not at all. Rather I am saying that we can make the best decision based on facts and critical thinking and hope for best. As we improve our understanding we will improve our decisions. It is never ending process that is much better than to somehow interpret Bible which many religions interpret differently anyways.
So my big question is: if you do want to use Bible, which religion has the right moral answer? Is it the Catholics, Protestants, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons or your religion?
You: I’ll largely give you that one, except to say there are spiritual ways of knowing that are outside the realm of science. Prayer is such a tool used by religious people. It can lead to insight and revelation that unfolds layers
of truth as we make our own lives a petri dish of experiment, applying the truths our religious faith teaches to our lives to see what grows out of it.
Me: So how do you know with your prayer that you are not bluffing yourself? I think in part you want it to be truth for whatever reason (security, end goal, follow crowd). I don’t have such need (actually I did once) so sorry I can’t take your word for it. =)
You: I agree with you totally on this point. Some traditions are wonderful and some worthy of our contempt and even political sanction. Some religious ideas are exalting and some are, to use another religious term, evil. But so with secular traditions as well. Those that arise out of men oppressing women are shameful. Such shameful traditions that are motivated by a religious inclination give religion a bad name and should be equally sanctioned.
Me: Great to see we can agree on something substantial. 😉 Can you tell me which secular traditions are bad?
I’m having lots of fun here. Thanks for the ongoing dialogue, Zdenek.
Me: same here. Thanks for your thoughts and I hope my response will make some sense to you =)
I also look forward to your response. Maybe I should send you my top reasons why I see religion not real because I would love to join one that I can see be true. Who would not want to have someone looking over them and go to heaven? 😉
PS: I didn’t proof read this, so hope it is readable!
Nice. Exactly right, and well put.
[…] empty and barren. But a life filled with purpose and meaning, one that makes you feel like you matter, that you’re leaving your little corner of the world a little better than the way you found it is […]
[…] I don’t recall Christ, Buddha or any other deity telling their followers that buying and consuming more stuff is the path to enlightenment. The message I’ve heard over and over is the exact opposite. […]
Reading all the comments,analysing them n myself what I conclude is we all r survivors,trying hard to let go of things which doesn’t matter and move on with more meaningful things..that’s life,it will give u sorrows,will break u at times but we will have to be enough courageous to fight it back to move.some may say that why fight with life instead of accepting everything which goes go with the flow,but when u feel weak,find urself discarded from this world,that fighting spirit really helps.sometimes to live this life,u have to fight with the life
[…] empty and barren. But a life filled with purpose and meaning, one that makes you feel like you matter, that you’re leaving your little corner of the world a little better than the way you found it is […]
This is a great article. Thanks for sharing. God bless.
[…] Technology is one of the best things that can happen to anyone. It can never be considered as a bane. Teenagers need to make the right decisions and choose what is good for them and leave out the bad stuff. Once they understand the meaning of life, making the right choice wouldn’t be a problem. As they are in an age and era where they are exposed to everything, as adults, we need to make them understand what matters in life. […]
I m upset from these days because my friend that I love so much in this world is not talking to me from few months she is really cute I really don’t know what should I do then I suddenly search “what does matter in life” I read your article
I got my answer I have faith in her and now I believe she will talk to me one day
Thanks
Mukul, I think you might be misapplying what I wrote. Humans have free will. Some people like others and some don’t. We can’t always know what attracts one person to another. Exercising faith that someone will like us in return is, in my opinion, misapplied faith. Our faith can’t change someone’s attraction or lack of it. If you like someone, cute or otherwise, and she doesn’t return the attraction, it’s fine to stay friends and hope for something to change (that happens sometimes as you get to know someone), but if nothing changes, it’s time to move on. Feel the regret or let-down or sadness, accept it, then move on. And please don’t be one of those people who holds on to the hope too long, pausing your life for the eternal hope of something that never happens. Stand up, shake it off, and move on with your life. There will be other people come in and out of your life. Some will stay and others will leave.
Good luck figuring it all out, Mukul. And remember, as much as some people think there are soul mates, one true love, that’s a crock! There are plenty of compatible people we can love and be loved by. If one relationship doesn’t work or never even gets off the ground, then others will follow. Just be sure to always work on your own personal development, always becoming a better person, reaching for goals, educating your mind and your heart. Over time, as we work on who we are inside, we will become increasingly attractive to a larger number of people. God bless!
Your profound insights remind us to prioritize what truly matters – values, relationships, faith, and self-respect. Life’s substance lies beyond the glitter, sustaining us with purpose and joy. Thank you for this compelling reminder to seek deeper meaning.